“GIFTS FROM THE SEA”: THE CHEROKEE SHELL MUSEUM


Cherokee Shell Museum, Abaco Bahamas (Keith Salvesen)

“GIFTS FROM THE SEA”: THE CHEROKEE SHELL MUSEUM

In the shadow of a tall pylon in the secluded settlement of Cherokee stands Abaco’s smallest museum. Make that one of the world’s smallest museums. As I mentioned after it opened last year, other contenders for the title include the MmuseumM in New York, housed in an elevator shaft (look through glass window + audio guide); a converted red telephone kiosk in Warley, Yorkshire UK dedicated to local history (one visitor at a time); and a tiny shed of 134 sq ft in Arizona featuring what might broadly be called ‘ephemera’, including a Beatles poster…

Cherokee Shell Museum, Abaco Bahamas (Keith Salvesen)

This tiny museum is dedicated to the shells of Abaco. It is almost certainly the smallest shell museum anywhere in the world (except maybe the one you kept in a small box under your bed when you were 10). 

Cherokee Shell Museum, Abaco Bahamas / Gifts from the Sea / Cinder Pinder

“Gifts from the Sea” is housed in the former 1950s telegraph office that ceased to operate in 1987 and had fallen into disrepair. Leased from BTC for a nominal rent, the little building was restored, and given a smart new roof and a complete makeover. It’s the perfect space for displaying a selection of the wonderful shells and corals to be found in Abaco waters.

Cherokee Shell Museum, Abaco Bahamas / Gifts from the Sea / Cinder Pinder

This community project is the vision and creation of Curator Lee Pinder. Derek Weatherford fitted cabinets for the exhibits, and artist Jo-Ann Bradley painted a interior Cherokee-themed mural as a fitting backdrop to the displays.

Cherokee Shell Museum, Abaco Bahamas / Gifts from the Sea / Cinder Pinder

The exhibition shows more than 200 shells, each catalogued with its Latin and common name, and clearly labelled in the display. Most were found locally; a few are from further afield. Some specimens are very rare. The collection will expand as people make shell donations to the museum. 

Cherokee Shell Museum, Abaco Bahamas / Gifts from the Sea / Abaconian

The building has a door at each end to give natural light and provide a ‘walk-through’ arrangement, which makes viewing in the confined space easier. Entry is free but there’s a glass jar for donations towards the upkeep of the museum. I’m guessing here, but I reckon donations made ‘outside the jar’ (so to speak) are very welcome too…

Museum Curator Lee PinderCherokee Shell Museum, Abaco Bahamas / Gifts from the Sea / Cinder Pinder

The opening ceremony took place on Easter Saturday 2017, when Cherokee resident Rev. Bateman Sands performed the official ribbon cutting ceremony preceded by a prayer at precisely 12 noon. As Jennifer Hudson in an Abaconian article pointed out, he was the ideal person for the task, having been “the first telegraph operator in Cherokee Sound, working in the little building using Morse code and in charge of the one and only telephone in the settlement until 1987 when the new BTC building was opened”.

Cherokee Shell Museum, Abaco Bahamas / Gifts from the Sea / Cinder Pinder

The shell museum is not left open all the time, but visitors are welcomed on weekend afternoons, and private tours can be arranged by calling either number shown below on the notice attached to the door.

Cherokee Shell Museum, Abaco Bahamas (Keith Salvesen)

To see a selection of the many types of Abaco shells, check out my shell page HERE

Sources and Photo Credits: Bradley Albury / Jennifer Hudson / Abaconian; Cindy James Pinder (shells, interior 2017); Keith Salvesen (exterior, 2018)

Cherokee Shell Museum, Abaco Bahamas (Keith Salvesen)

SEA BISCUITS: THEY REALLY DO CONTAIN DOVES – AND MORE!


Sea Biscuit Close-up, Abaco (Keith Salvesen)

SEA BISCUITS: THEY REALLY DO CONTAIN DOVES – AND MORE!

Recently I posed the question whether sea biscuits, like sand dollars contain ‘doves’. I had one in my hand, it rattled, I took a photograph through its ‘mouth hole’ and the question was answered. Biscuits do indeed contain doves – see HERE for details and comparisons with dollar doves.

Sea Biscuit 'Doves', Abaco (Keith Salvesen)

However, I spinelessly* failed to break open the biscuit to check out the contents more closely. I theorised that, because of the 5-way symmetry of these creatures, there would be 5 doves (which are in fact segmented mouth parts) in a biscuit exactly as with a dollar, and amiably challenged anyone to disprove it. [* biscuits and dollars are types of sea urchin – see what I did there?]

Dollar dove in close-up – one of 5 segmented mouth parts inside the ‘test’ (skeleton)Sand Dollar 'Doves', Abaco (Keith Salvesen)

Melissa Ann Guinness from Hope Town has a far more robust attitude to these things and, taking up the challenge, she heartlessly smashed open a sea biscuit from her collection to investigate further. I said I’d publish a correction if my theory was wrong. This is it – though in one arguable sense the theory holds good. It just didn’t go far enough…

Sea Biscuit 'Doves', Abaco (Melissa Ann Guinness)

In the above picture you can see (a) 4 quarters of a sea biscuit skeleton (b) 10 demi-doves (rather than 5 whole doves) and (c) a small mummified 5-limbed brittle star that was presumably in the creature’s digestive system when it died.

10 ‘demi-doves’  (or, when assembled, 5 doves that (unlike sand dollars) are in 2 parts
Sea Biscuit 'Doves', Abaco (Melissa Ann Guinness)

Complete doves

Sea Biscuit 'Doves', Abaco (Melissa Ann Guinness) Sea Biscuit 'Doves', Abaco (Melissa Ann Guinness) Sea Biscuit 'Doves', Abaco (Melissa Ann Guinness)

The final reconstruction – 5 doves and a bonus brittle star

Sea Biscuit 'Doves', Abaco (Keith Salvesen)

Photo Credits: Keith Salvesen (1, 2, 3, 10); Melissa Ann Guinness (4, 5, 6, ,7 ,8 ,9)

SEA BISCUITS: DO THEY REALLY CONTAIN DOVES?


Sea Biscuits, Delphi, Abaco (Clare Latimer)

Sea Biscuits on the Beach, Delphi, Abaco Bahamas

SEA BISCUITS: DO THEY REALLY CONTAIN DOVES?

A couple of years ago I wrote a post called ECHINODERMS, DOLLAR DOVES & PETRIFIED BISCUITS. It dealt with the… fact? rumour? old wive’s tale?… that within each sand dollar test (i.e. the white skeleton) are hidden 5 ‘doves’. You can hear them rattling inside if you shake the dollar… 

Sand Dollar Doves (Keith Salvesen) 6

Sand Dollar from Abaco containing 5 miniature white doves…

I investigated the theory with senior granddaughter, and we broke a sand dollar in half. And as you can see, the answer was undoubtedly yes – there were 5 tiny white doves, thus fulfilling the prediction of the famous ‘Sand Dollar’ poem that contains the lines  “Now break the centre open And here you will release The five white doves awaiting To spread good will and peace”.

Five white doves (in fact, the separated parts of the creature’s feeding apparatus)Sand Dollar Doves (Keith Salvesen) 1

A single dove, a picture of dovelinessSand Dollar Doves (Keith Salvesen) 3

I never thought to extend the experiment to sea biscuits, another object prized by beachcombers. All that changed last month when I picked up a sea biscuit and found that it, too, rattled.

A rattling good sea biscuit

So I turned it over to take a closer look at the underside. And there, unmistakably, was the source of the rattle – some kind of internal arrangement inside the feeding  hole (let us not pause overlong to consider the purpose of the other hole). But it wasn’t conclusively a dove.

So I shook it around a bit (sorry, doves) and zoomed in. And there was a small white columbine-type contraption remarkably similar to those found in the dollar dove. And no, I did not smash open the sea biscuit (it wasn’t actually mine). And no, I didn’t doubt any longer that sea biscuits also contain doves.

SO WILL THERE BE 5 DOVES, LIKE WITH THE DOLLARS?

I predict there will also be five. Both dollars and biscuits have ‘five-way symmetry’ (look on the topside of a biscuit or dollar to see how); and so the mouth (from which the ‘doves’ derive) will have a single part for each of the five sectors, all linked. 

If anyone would like to smash up one of their precious beach finds and test the theory, please feel free. Prove me wrong… and I’ll publish a correction! [Photo please…]

All photos Keith Salvesen except Header, Clare Latimer at Delphi

SEA GLASS TREASURES & TWO ISLAND CHICKS…


Sea Glass & Jewellery, Abaco, Bahamas (Two Island Chicks)

SEA GLASS TREASURES & TWO ISLAND CHICKS…

It’s time to shine the Rolling Harbour spotlight on sea glass, a neglected (by me) topic recently . Everyone loves it (don’t they?), and there’s always a bit of excitement in finding a pretty piece of cloudy glass gleaming in the sand on the beach. Just look at that colour. Might it be rare? How old could it be? Should I pick it up or leave it for someone else to enjoy? 

Sea Glass & Jewellery, Abaco, Bahamas (Two Island Chicks)

Collecting sea glass is one of the pleasures of a walk on the beach. Or maybe it’s the motivation for the walk. For some, it is an opportunity to turn what the sea throws onto the beach into something decorative. Abaco is home to some excellent jewellery** makers who specialise in using locally found materials to make beautiful things. These sometimes incorporate a mix of sea glass, pebbles, and small shells.

Sea Glass & Jewellery, Abaco, Bahamas (Two Island Chicks)Sea Glass & Jewellery, Abaco, Bahamas (Two Island Chicks)Sea Glass & Jewellery, Abaco, Bahamas (Two Island Chicks)

In Hopetown on Elbow Cay, Hilary Thompson and Erika Feszt Russell do just that. Trading under the name ‘Two Island Chicks’, they use sea glass in many of their creations, some examples of which are displayed here. As you’ll see, they also apply their creativity to showing their jewellery attractively. 

Sea Glass & Jewellery, Abaco, Bahamas (Two Island Chicks)

The collected glass has to be sorted into the various colours. Most are quite common (white, green, brown), some are uncommon (eg cobalt blue), and just a few that are very rare – and possibly valuable (red, orange) – see charts below.

Sea Glass & Jewellery, Abaco, Bahamas (Two Island Chicks)Sea Glass & Jewellery, Abaco, Bahamas (Two Island Chicks)Sea Glass & Jewellery, Abaco, Bahamas (Two Island Chicks)Sea Glass & Jewellery, Abaco, Bahamas (Two Island Chicks)

The charts below give a general overview of the comparative rarity of various sea glass colours, their sources, and the chances of making a rare find. Of course, these are mainstream colours; there are many other in-between hues and shades.

Sea Glass & Jewellery, Abaco, Bahamas (Two Island Chicks)Sea Glass & Jewellery, Abaco, Bahamas (Two Island Chicks)Sea Glass & Jewellery, Abaco, Bahamas (Two Island Chicks)

Can you spot the most unusual piece of sea glass here?Sea Glass & Jewellery, Abaco, Bahamas (Two Island Chicks)

Sea Glass & Jewellery, Abaco, Bahamas (Two Island Chicks) Sea Glass & Jewellery, Abaco, Bahamas (Two Island Chicks)

RELATED POSTS

BEACHCOMBING FOR SEA GLASS with Kasia

BOOKCOMBING: SEA GLASS BOOKS (4 books compared)

ABACO ARTS & CRAFTS (with drop-down menus)

** Yeah yeah, I hear you. Jewellery? How English is that? Please mentally substitute ‘jewelry’ throughout. Maybe the same for colour / color. This is a bi-lingual area.

THE TWO ISLAND CHICKS

Credits: Hilary and Erika for all the photos; as for the sea glass charts (1) West Coast Sea Glass 2006 (as found in a number of online sources); (2) Origin unknown (ditto re online sources) 

CHEROKEE SHELL MUSEUM, ABACO: “GIFTS FROM THE SEA”


Cherokee Shell Museum, Abaco Bahamas / Gifts from the Sea / Cinder Pinder

CHEROKEE SHELL MUSEUM, ABACO: “GIFTS FROM THE SEA”

One of the smallest museums in the world has just opened on April 15 in the picturesque settlement of Cherokee on Abaco, Bahamas. Other contenders for the title include the MmuseumM in New York, housed in an elevator shaft (look through glass window + audio guide); a converted red telephone kiosk in Warley, Yorkshire UK dedicated to local history (one visitor at a time); and a tiny shed of 134 sq ft in Arizona featuring what might broadly be called ‘ephemera’, including a Beatles poster…

Cherokee Shell Museum, Abaco Bahamas / Gifts from the Sea / Abaconian

Whatever the size comparisons, the new shell museum is beyond doubt the very best one in the Bahamas, not least because it is the only one. “Gifts from the Sea” is housed in the former 1950s telegraph office that ceased to operate in 1987 and had fallen into disrepair. Leased from BTC for a nominal rent, the little building was restored, and given a smart new roof and a complete makeover. The new museum provides the perfect space for displaying a selection of the wonderful shells to be found in Abaco waters.

Cherokee Shell Museum, Abaco Bahamas / Gifts from the Sea / Cinder Pinder

The whole community has got behind this project, which is the vision and creation of Curator Lee Pinder. Derek Weatherford fitted cabinets for the exhibits, and artist Jo-Ann Bradley has painted a fabulous interior Cherokee-themed mural as a fitting backdrop to the displays.

Cherokee Shell Museum, Abaco Bahamas / Gifts from the Sea / Cinder Pinder

The exhibition shows more than 200 shells, each catalogued with its Latin and common name, and clearly labelled in the display. Most were found locally; a few are from further afield. Some specimens are very rare. It is hoped to expand the collection as people make shell donations to the museum. 

Cherokee Shell Museum, Abaco Bahamas / Gifts from the Sea / Abaconian

The building has a door at each end to give natural light and provide a ‘walk-through’ arrangement, which will make viewing in the confined space easier. Entry is free but there’s a glass jar for donations towards the upkeep of the museum. I’m guessing here, but I reckon donations that are made ‘outside the jar’ (so to speak) are very welcome too…

Museum Curator Lee PinderCherokee Shell Museum, Abaco Bahamas / Gifts from the Sea / Cinder Pinder

The opening ceremony took place on Easter Saturday, when Cherokee resident Rev. Bateman Sands performed the official ribbon cutting ceremony preceded by a prayer at precisely 12 noon. As Jennifer Hudson in an Abaconian article points out, he was the ideal person for the task, having been “the first telegraph operator in Cherokee Sound, working in the little building using Morse code and in charge of the one and only telephone in the settlement until 1987 when the new BTC building was opened”.

Cherokee Shell Museum, Abaco Bahamas / Gifts from the Sea / Cinder Pinder

The shell museum is not left open all the time, but visitors are welcomed and private tours can be arranged by calling 475-7868.

Cherokee Shell Museum, Abaco Bahamas / Gifts from the Sea / Cinder Pinder

To see a selection of the many types of Abaco shells, check out my shell page HERE

Sources and Credits: Bradley Albury / Jennifer Hudson / Abaconian; Cindy James Pinder for her great photos

Sand dollar, Abaco (Rolling Harbour)

“THE ADMIRABLE CHITON” (A DELPHI BEACH MYSTERY)


Fuzzy Chiton, Delphi, Abaco (Kasia Reid)

“THE ADMIRABLE CHITON” (A DELPHI BEACH MYSTERY)

The beach at Delphi is good for combing. Most of Abaco’s beaches are too, for that matter. You can find Kasia’s beachcombing page HERE. Last month 2 guests, Linda and Jan, went exploring on the beach and returned with a handful of mystery items they had found under the clumps of seaweed. These were clearly neither complete nor broken shells, and even after some research in books and online I remained baffled. They were obviously parts of some water-based species… but what parts, anatomically speaking? And what species?

Fuzzy Chiton valves (segments), Delphi Beach, Abaco, Bahamas

So I contacted Colin Redfern, Bahamian sea shell expert and author of a magisterial tome on the subject. His response was typically swift and definitive: 

The ladies have found some beach-worn valves from the common Fuzzy chiton, which was so nicely photographed by Kasia on your April 12, 2012 entry – (the one that included fecal pellets) [See Header]. As you know, the meat from this species is eaten by Bahamians, who discard the unwanted shell. The individual plates then become separated by wave action and normal deterioration. Abaco has a pretty good selection of chiton species, and individual valves from some of the other species are sometimes found on beaches.
Fuzzy Chiton, wiki

Chitons (pron. kytens) are marine molluscs with a great many species worldwide, from very small to quite large. Their shell comprises 8 interlocking and overlapping curved plates known as ‘valves’ that provide a flexible protection, and articulate as the creature moves. Chitons – at least some species – can even curl up into a protective ball. The plates are held together by a ‘girdle’ surrounding the animal.

Acanthopleura_granulata_(West_Indian_fuzzy_chitons)_(San_Salvador_Island,_Bahamas) James St. John

Fossil records show that these primitive-looking animals derive from the Devonian period – or even Ordovician. They remind me of trilobites, even older creatures from the Cambrian period that used to fascinate me at school when I was small and paying attention. The name chiton derives from Latin word for mollusc, which itself comes from an older Greek word meaning a tunic. Which they in no way resemble.

Fuzzy Chiton, Abaco (Kasia Reid)

After a chiton dies, the valves which make up the eight-part shell come apart because the girdle no longer holds them together and these the plates may wash up in beach drift, to be found by Linda and Jan. The individual shell plates are sometimes known as “butterfly shells” due to their shape.

A DOZEN CHITON FACT TO AMAZE YOUR FRIENDS WITH

  • Chitons are also known as ‘sea cradles’ or ‘coat-of-mail shells
  • Their shell consists of 8 plates / valves so flexible that they can even curl into a ball
  • They move with a muscular ‘foot’, and use it to cling onto rocks like a limpet
  • They have no definable head, no tail and no eyes, onlyphotoreceptor cell clusters’
  • The mouth on on the underside of the chiton
  • It contains a sort of tongue – a radula – with rows of teeth, each with 17 (why 17?)
  • They use the radula to scrape the rock substrate for algae and similar
  • A chiton’s digestive system produces neat little fecal packages like white pills
  • Its anus is next to its foot, a design mercifully not found in humans
  • I learn that chitons “lack a cerebral ganglion”. I think this means, no brain as such
  • However they do have a primitive ‘homing’ ability too complex to summarise…
  • Chitons are eaten by people mainly in the West Indies and the Philippines

Chiton, Abaco 2 (Kasia Reid)

WHAT? YOU CAN EAT THEM?**

If you are asking that question, you perhaps read right through the 12 facts to the very last one. If so, you deserve an answer and indeed a recipe for Chitons aka ‘Sea Cockroaches’. And who better to provide it than the brilliantly-named PSYKDELIASMITH Click the link to find out more.

**CAUTION As a couple of people have rightly pointed out (thanks Liann and Julias) since I posted this, not all chitons are edible. Some are poisonous. So before you think of a culinary chiton caper, best check that you have got an edible one

A chiton on the move, very slowly, and apparently halted by an encounter with a nerite

wp809b3177_06

Colin Redfern kindly sent me a pdf of the chiton section of his book. Of the fuzzy chiton he writes: “Occurrence: Very common intertidally on rocky shorelines. Known locally as a Curb, with the meaty foot used as an alternative to conch in salads. Gutted specimens or disarticulated valves consequently common along shorelines.” Which is just where this post began.

FUZZY CHITON scientific doc (Colin Redfern)

And if you want to know about the title and its link to Peter Pan, click THE ADMIRABLE CRICHTON

POST SCRIPT This post has generated quite a lot of comment on Facebook. Here are a few, plus an amazing discovery in Hope Town
  • “Commonly know as a curb, they are edible (raw) you make a salad like you do with conch , delicious !!!” (Rosalie Pyfrom)
  • True some are poisonous, but your have to know which ones!! I was showed as a child which were good from bad!!” (Janice Carey Hall) 
  •  “Very delicious” (Cantrell Walker)
  • “Lets not forget the poisonous ones!” (Julias Sawyer)
  •  “Don’t mess wit my curbs, nom nom”  + “Definitely do NOT eat the very large ones with the bumpy rim”.(Liann Key Kaighin)
  • “Curb stew is a Bahamian food that has since the loyalist arrived” (Steve Roessler)
 Gary Richardson Jr.'s photo.

Then Gary Richardson Jr added a photo of what must be a pearl, found in a curb in Hope Town. 

 To which I replied “Well that’s a surprise! Interesting find. Did a bit of research. Apparently all shelled molluscs are capable of producing ‘pearls’ – though they have no value. So this must be a chiton pearl…”
Credits: Linda & Jan for their beachcombing finds; Colin Redfern for his ID & info enabling this post (and his continuing interest); Kasia Reid; Hans Hillewaert & James St John (wiki uploads)

ECHINODERMS, DOLLAR DOVES & PETRIFIED BISCUITS


Sand Dollar Doves (Keith Salvesen) 6

Sand Dollar from Abaco containing 5 miniature white doves…

ECHINODERMS, DOLLAR DOVES & PETRIFIED BISCUITS

Echinoderms (Gr. ‘Hedgehog Skin’) comprise a large variety of sea creatures characterised (mostly) by radial symmetry, often five-way. For Abaconians, the most frequently encountered are starfish, sea urchins, sand dollars and sea biscuits. I am going to look at two particular aspects of dollars and biscuits, conscious that my illustrative photos of white objects were stupidly taken against a white background.

DOLLAR DOVES

I’m sure all Bahamians know or are aware of at least one version of the famous ‘Sand Dollar’ poem, in which the various characteristics of the test (the skeleton of the creature) are given religious significance. One verse of the poem may be puzzling: “Now break the centre open And here you will release The five white doves awaiting To spread good will and peace”.

Recently, Senior Granddaughter (10 this week) was looking at some Abaco sand dollars in her unfeasibly huge collection of shells. She picked one up, shook it and it rattled. She said a friend at school had told her that a rattling sand dollar has ‘doves’ inside it, and asked if we could break it open and see. I’ve learnt that it is useless to argue with her – she has the tenacity of a trial lawyer – so we did. This is what we found.

Sand Dollar with a spiky interior like a white cave with stalagmites and stalagtitesSand Dollar Doves (Keith Salvesen) 4

Five white doves (in fact, the separated parts of the creature’s feeding apparatus)Sand Dollar Doves (Keith Salvesen) 1

Two broken pieces showing where the doves are centrally locatedSand Dollar Doves (Keith Salvesen) 5

A single dove (best viewed the other way up for full-on doveliness)Sand Dollar Doves (Keith Salvesen) 3

The photo below, from Pinterest, shows the ‘mouth’ with its 5 dove-parts intact, an arrangement called ‘Aristotle’s Lantern’.

Sand Dollar : Aristotle's Lantern : Doves (Pinterest)

PETRIFIED BISCUITS

In common parlance ‘petrified’ is an extreme version of ‘terrified’. Literally, it means ‘turned to stone’ (L. Petrus, a rock). It is descriptive of a state of fossilisation, where an animal skeleton or dead wood or plant matter turns over aeons into stone. Undaunted by her Doves discovery, SG (a most inquisitive girl) also discovered a box containing random stones and fossils. She found these two items:

Fossilised sea biscuitsPetrified Sea Biscuit (Keith Salvesen) 1

A closer look at the pair of rocksPetrified Sea Biscuit (Keith Salvesen) 5 Petrified Sea Biscuit (Keith Salvesen) 4

The undersides of the fossils above – looking like stones but with some tell-tale small holesPetrified Sea Biscuit (Keith Salvesen) 2 Petrified Sea Biscuit (Keith Salvesen) 3

A close-up of the pale biscuitPetrified Sea Biscuit (Keith Salvesen) 6

Sea biscuits as everyone knows them, on the beach at Delphi – skeletons but not yet fossilsSea Biscuits, Delphi, Abaco (Clare Latimer) copy

A ‘modern’ sea biscuit in close-upSea Biscuit, Abaco (Rhonda Pearce) copy

FUN FACT

Florida has an unofficial but proposed State Fossil, the ‘Sea Biscuit (Eocene Age)’. I didn’t know it before, but it turns out that around 40 States have State Fossils. Whatever next? State Bacteria?

SO HOW OLD MIGHT A PETRIFIED BISCUIT BE?

The fossil biscuits I have looked at, from Florida to Madagascar, are said to come from three specific historic epochs – from the oldest, Jurassic (145m – 201m years ago),  to Eocene (34m – 56m) and Pleistocene (0.01m – 2.6m). 

HOW DOES THAT HELP ANYBODY? BE MORE PRECISE

By all means. Here is an excellent Geochart that gives an idea of the time span. A Jurassic sea biscuit would be more than 145m years old. So maybe the next plan should be to take the 2 petrified sea biscuits plus SG to a museum to see if we can get an idea of their age…geotimescale

All photos ‘in-house’ except the Delphi biscuits, Clare Latimer & the single biscuit Rhonda Pearce; Geochart to be credited asap, mislaid the source…